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Difficult situations with locality data (Fundorts)

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Stefan
(@stefan)
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Beigetreten: Vor 19 Jahren
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For example: Badis kanabos comes from Assam. The ones I will be receiving were collected in Bengal, from water very near Assam. That river flows into/from Assam as well. My fish could have swam from Assam to Bengal in a very short time (fish don't know any political boundries of course). Yet if two collections were made from both Assam and Bengal, we might not keep them in the same tank. I was thinking about this and how difficult it sometimes can be. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for keeping Fundorts separated but it's only in cases like this that it doesn't matter.

The bags with assorted Badis I'm getting - possible kanabos - are amongst other places collected from Shella, Assam - also nearby. But who's to tell they're the exact same fishes....?


   
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(@karen_k)
Estimable Member
Beigetreten: Vor 19 Jahren
Beiträge: 201
 

But who's to tell they're the exact same fishes....?

I think the only way to tell this for sure is by means of genetic research.
If the fish you have die (hopefully after a long life), you could preserve them in alcohol and have them researched. Scientists working for the Barcoding Life Project, http://www.barcodinglife.org/ , can tell if 2 specimen are the same species or not.
I wish it would become a standard procedure to have (newly described) fish species examined this way, by their collectors/describers.

Karen


   
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Stefan
(@stefan)
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I'll most certainly do that Karen! But to begin with they must have specimens that are, in this case, kanabos for sure. However since I will have those it's possible of course.

I wish too that every author used these kind of techniques though one question rises; where do you draw the line in this research? In other words; when is a fish a new species genetically....?

Kullander and Britz are thorough with their descriptions by also looking DNA etc. I favor that!


   
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chk
 chk
(@chk)
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Beigetreten: Vor 22 Jahren
Beiträge: 1803
 

My fish could have swam from Assam to Bengal in a very short time

Dear Stefan,
I was curious about the badis kanabos and what you said about the habitat.
I like to disagree with what you say.
Since I visited that area, I would bet all my snakeheads that it is not like you say.
Because, Shella is from the Khasi HILLS (Shillong district 1200 m above sealevel). They are in fact from Meghalaya and not from proper Assam and not from Bengal (both 50 m above sealevel).
Since the area is very unknown: NE India, Bengal, Assam, Meghalaya sounds very much the same to us. But in fact it is not (Shella is a very distant place).
And I even would claim that as the most Darios as well as snakeheads from that area are small, absolutely very small populations for which it is impossible to spread.
There is one map to buy which is very good for informations on the area of Assam. I will lookup from which company. On that map you have an easy orientation

Here is a website for Shillong (fishes in Meghalaya):
http://dcshillong.nic.in/dist-frame.htm

Regards, chk
PS: my writing still suffers from the heavy channaholism this weekend in Meppel
:???:

>===:{ } >=:]
IGL 103


   
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Stefan
(@stefan)
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Beigetreten: Vor 19 Jahren
Beiträge: 592
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Thanks Christian - seems I've got my info crossed! Okay, these are the collection cites for all fish awaiting me:

kanabos: Bengal
assorted fish (look like kanabos but still unknown ID): Shella, Bigul (don't know if I wrote the latter correct)
new badid and Dario: Meghalaya

I know for sure the locations are correct. My saying this and that lies close to each other is now certainly not! Do these locations sound better to you?

Thanks for the link and for looking up the map! I can definitely use it!

Hahaha, but we all had a great day/weekend didn't we?


   
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chk
 chk
(@chk)
Noble Member
Beigetreten: Vor 22 Jahren
Beiträge: 1803
 

Sounds a little chaotic:
Shella is in Meghalaya.
What is the Type habitat of kanabos?
chk

>===:{ } >=:]
IGL 103


   
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Stefan
(@stefan)
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Beigetreten: Vor 19 Jahren
Beiträge: 592
Themenstarter  

kanabos type locality is (and I quote): India: Assam: Kokrajhar District, Brahmaputra River drainage, Raimana, Janali River.

Andrew checked all characters for me from the description and they match. Most distinctive in kanabos are the dorsal fin blotch (present in mine) and very large eyes (present in mine) amongst a large number of other (also matching) characters.


   
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(@karen_k)
Estimable Member
Beigetreten: Vor 19 Jahren
Beiträge: 201
 

(about DNA species-research) .. to begin with they must have specimens that are, in this case, kanabos for sure.

Yes, that is why it is so important that the describer(s) of a new species send in a specimen, so that it will be added to the Barcoding Database.

I wish too that every author used these kind of techniques though one question rises; where do you draw the line in this research? In other words; when is a fish a new species genetically....?

A species is defined by its specific CO1 (CO1 is a part of a gene). A good article about the Barcoding Project, explaining what it is and how it works, can be found here: http://phe.rockefeller.edu/PDF_FILES/NY ... ec2004.pdf

cheers,
Karen


   
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Stefan
(@stefan)
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Thank you for the link; I'll read it soon.


   
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Stefan
(@stefan)
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Beigetreten: Vor 19 Jahren
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I've been looking at Bengal specimens photos made today and all characters say: kanabos. To be sure(r) I've forwarded the photos to Britz. Whatever I'll hear I'll post here. They're beautiful fish by the way; red in the fins, some scales appear to have a green shine to them. Very nice!


   
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Stefan
(@stefan)
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From Ralf:

Dear Stefan,

Yes from the pics I would say this is kanabos. It's got the cpnspicuous blotch followed by a light interspace.

Cheers,

Ralf


   
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Stefan
(@stefan)
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Beigetreten: Vor 19 Jahren
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I should be in posession of all badids April the 11th :D Exciting!


   
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