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Harte Makropoden suchen

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Active Member
Beigetreten: Vor 16 Jahren
Beiträge: 10

Guten Tag!

Please excuse the use of English on a German forum, but my Deutsch is not enough to have a clear discussion...
My name is Fabian Vanghele, ecologist, 33 years old, located in Bucharest, Romania.
My wish was to have the two hardiest Macropodus species in a pond outdoors, and that from over 13 years ago, when I first saw in a book the M. chinensis (at that time) areal as north as Harbin! Before that, even few years ago, an agronom ingineer (and an amateur aquarist) which went to China many times (in the times of the great inter-communist friendship between Romanian and Chinese peoples :) ) said that he saw a fish which resembling a Macropodus in rice fields south of Beijing. I was amazed but quite circumspect. Later it proved that his eye-sight was just fine!
I had some attempts to get in touch with some people which do have some ocellatus or northern opercularis forms in their ponds- Mr. Seehaus indicated me a few names- but finally no result.
So, here I am, subscribing into IGL, looking for a new chance! If someone has nice, not inbreeding-deformed, winterharte fish, willing to sale or exchange some for... very hardy Opuntia cacti species- my yard has some... tons, with correct ID and specified ocations- please, let me know!
I am very interested in location, even if such fish will be more expensive. If no location known, no problem anyway :lol: :lol:

Thank you in advance!

Fabian- Animaluzzu


Noble Member
Beigetreten: Vor 11 Jahren
Beiträge: 1413

Hello Fabian,

nice to meet you again. :-)

Right now there are to strains on M. ocellatus in the IGL, which might be of interest to you.
The first is from the "Jantse"-area, well not a really defined area, and the scond is from Korea, Ichon Chemulpo, in the vicinitiy of Seoul.
Especially the latter one is really hard. In this area they winter temperatures as low as -20°C.

I do not have either one of those strains. Hopefully I get the Jangtse at the spring meeting of the IGL. The korean strain seems to be quite rare. I don't know a breeder right now.

best regards

Active Member
Beigetreten: Vor 16 Jahren
Beiträge: 10

Hi, Thomas! Thank you for answer!
I read about those later forms and the "old aquarium strain". I can wait to read your articles about them on your website...
I will wait for a source, when available. What about a trip to China? :jump:
All the willing IGL members and the Dracula's nephew :) ...
All the best!


Active Member
Beigetreten: Vor 16 Jahren
Beiträge: 10

Hallo again!

I managed few years ago to get a few fish- more likely the "Yangzi"- form (thanks, Charly D. and Laura M.S.!). A single pair survived to the Spring, then great success, a few hundred babies brought at 3-4 cm... and here started the problems... killed them ALL by mistake :cry: ... and next Spring, lost the adult pair- my only hope- to the infamous Camallanus, an unknown parasite here. When treatment found, already too late: I obtained the death of the worms, just to wittness the death of my poor fish 2-3 days later.

Years passed and always hurt, especially after a failure to get them again- someone in the Netherlands (Mr. Jan K.) was kind to make me a packet, but a stubborn driver didn not wanted to take fish for transport... and making that trip was very soliciting for Mr.K, wich is a senior and not in his best health... other keepers still having them (LOTS :( !!) were not willing to sell fish, and so my frustration became huge.

I started to think it's karma- what I wanted so much, I will never have. But last weeks, a friend was spoken about an order to Aquarium Glaser made by a friend of him, and just from curiosity I asked a catalogue. They were on stock! I phoned, finding it was maybe too late for adding some fish to the order, but it worked finally and got what I think it is the "Old form"- light coloured. I just hope not to fail again stupidly- I bred lots of labyrinths as a kid and managed to kill the hardiest one in mass... pure bad luck at that time.

I am still interested in other forms, like Yangzi, Inchon-Chemulpo, or any other ecotype able to live outdoors here. Also, if some northern M. opercularis able to live outdoors (Nanjing is quite able to do that, I heard)available, I would be interested too. Please let me know about!

Thanks and all the best!


Erich Willems
Estimable Member
Beigetreten: Vor 14 Jahren
Beiträge: 236

Hello Fabian,

is it possible, that you are the Fabian Vang. (coldhardycacti),
i did have mail exchange with?

If yes,
than why didn't you ask back.
We only need a way to manage the transport, than you can get some in spring:
Inchon or Guangzhous or from my third population.
But yet it's again to late.
The water gets to cold, to stress them with catching.
If it's to long to you,
try Günter, maybe he's reading it as well,
otherwise you can get his link from my site if you select the stock M.opercularis "Nanjing".
He is able to deliver M.ocellatus much quicker as i'm, cause i keep'm strongly with the visison as natural as possible, which binds me to seasonal deliver and small counts ...

If you are the Fabian i think you are ;),
than it should also be fine for you to contact Günter as you match with him the coldhardycacti-aspect. He's one with deep insides in this aspect :).

But if you aren't
the one i assume
it's still true
what i wrote about Guangzhou ;).

So try to go from :( to :)


I missed to answer the Nanjing-question:
I personally don't believe, that any opercularis population is able to survive long winters with ice-cover,
also opercularis contains population able to withstand short time ice coverage.
But that's another thing than long-term withstand yes?

On the other side:
Any ocellatus population, at least the ones coming to europe, are easily able to do so.

Macropodus ocellatus auf

Active Member
Beigetreten: Vor 16 Jahren
Beiträge: 10

Yes Erich, I am that one and only one :D .

No, it is far from being about you my sad complaint, we just lose contact for a while. In fact, it was about someone that promised me some and not bothering to answer my email when I was ready and found a transport possibility. Not even from Germany, BTW.
I just saw your natural approach- especially allowing predators- and when you said about entering winter with not even 100 animals (if correct understood it), I thought it's way too little for you to get some away. I would do the same, unless about 150-200 animals minimum, to have enough left for pond and about 2 back-up groups of 30-40 fish, like one in cold attic and another in cold room. I am on the cautious side, lesson learned from cacti first, but works for anything alive: "keep back-ups and spread to friends".

Otherwise, I would be very happy to be that Rana sp. from you ponds, only to spit back the fish in a bag after catching it :wink: .
Thank you for your offer, and yes, way too late this year- I would be interested in all the ecotypes, they are incredible variable. I will try to find Günter, at least for an ecotype you don't keep or available now, and some cacti talks.
I am surprised to find that Guangzhou line is equally hardy as the northerners, at least for your area. I wonder, is there an ocellatus line not full-hardy outdoors in Germany?

About opercularis: yes, I suspected that too, but I think they will be helped if kept in a very protected mini-pond, with a small polycarbonate "greenhouse", and a 100W heater- I think it's possible to keep the water above 5*C without great effort. All the other commercial lines I tried- some very wild looking and very beautiful- were not ok after 1 month under 10*C, and some started to die. So, gradually abandoned them all- too bad, but useless to try them again, except maybe the northernmost ones. I heard something about their presence in Korea- that should be a very hardy strain, but I am affraid it was a confusion with ocellatus.

For me, ocellatus is the peak-passion fish: very hardy, undemanding, interesting behaviour, beautiful and variable.
Keep in touch!

Thanks again and best regards!