INFORMATION II: HALTUNG UND ZUCHT

You're right about the red Andrea, sorry!
I should have written: no red, no blue in the caudal, dorsal and anal fins. They sometimes do have a little bit of red in the ventral fins (ventral fins is "unpaaren flossen", correct? The fins that end in a thread-like shape, in labyrinthfish species).
BTW, I think your sumatranus feel very well, when showing this red coloration!

My adult sumatranus have no spike tail, but it's possible I overlooked some that have, if sub-adults.
The sub-adults swim in a group of approx. 40 in an aquarium with many hiding places; and I must admit that I haven't studied them closely for a while (other than checking daily if they are still healthy and feeding well). Now it's my turn to

Or, maybe this explains (?): when my adult P. sumatranus squeezes its caudal fin, like the male does at the picture above (not the "dancing" pictures but the other one), the caudal fin ends in what looks like a spike.
However, if he spreads out this fin, like he does at the "dancing" picture, the tail has no elongated ray.

Do you see a spike in a squeezed, or a spread out caudal fin? I'll have a close look at my sub-adults soon, too !

Kind regards,
Karen

Back again - just checked the sumatranus juveniles carefully.
Indeed Andrea, some of the males have a tiny (1 milimeter) spike at their tail! Some other males haven't, and I saw 1 fish that looks female to me, but has a tiny spike as well. I'm not 100% sure about the gender of that little fish.
I'm surprised, because both parents don't have this. Must be somewhere in their genes though!

Best,
Karen

Versuche mal einen Beitrag, vielleicht gelingts. Schön, dass sich jemand um Prachtguramis im Forum kümmert. Eigentlich gibt es eine kleine, aber aktive Gruppe von Parozüchtern in der IGL. Vielleicht kann man deren Abstimmungen hierher verlegen.

Gruß Martin Hallmann

Die Fotos von Karen zeigen wohl P. sumatranus. Sie sind eigentlich gut und eindeutig von allen anderen Paros zu unterscheiden. Folgende Abweichungen sind mir aufgefallen.
Keine tyrkisen Schillerstreifen in den Flossen, ausschließlich rotorangene und schwarze Zeichnungen, ein bis 2 schwarze, runde Flecken in der Rückenflosse (ansatzweise auch in der Afterflosse).
Kurz ausgezipfelte Schwanzflosse 1-2mm der Männchen, oft kaum sichtbar.
Keine ausgeprägte Zeichnung in der Schwanzflosse (wie P. parvulus).
Die Männchen waren oft deutlich schlanker (kenne ich von keiner anderen Art) als Weibchen.
P. sumatranus ist kleiner, ca. 3cm lang als P. bintan Typen (bis 4cm).
Ich konnte leider P. sumatranus nicht nachzüchten. Karen, wo ist der Trick?

Einmalig und interessant ist die Dokumentation der Kopf-oben-Balz bei beiden Geschlechtern. Völlig abweichend von anderen Paros. Offenbar hat jede Paro-Gruppe verschiedene Balzverhalten. P. bintan "Mimbon" liegt häufig schräg im Wasser mit Kopfstand, P. nagyi, P. harveyi und P. Manis Mata meist in Normalschwimmhaltung und P. parvulus und P. ornaticauda kopfoben. P. ornaticauda-Männchen rasen machmal zusätzlich wie wild kreisförmig oder zickzack um die Weibchen rum.

Gruß Martin

Hallo Martin and others,

Ich hoffe dass es kein Problem ist, dass ich in Englisch schreibe? Ich kann Deutsch gut lesen und verstehen, aber schreiben auf Deutsch ist sehr schwierig fur mich...

Very nice that you have joined us here at this forum, Martin!
I have some fish you've bred (friends of me purchased them for me in Alzey, and last year in Sept., too). This year I got P. nagyi with your name on their bag, and last year P. bintan.
The bintans have had many nests and young, and I'm trying to breed a next generation at the moment (the fish spawned 5 days ago, and so far everything seems to go very well). The nagyi's do very well too, they'll have to grow a little before I'll start to try to breed them. They're beautiful!

Soooo. what's my secret ?!
I don't know, but I'll describe all that I use to get my Paros to breed. Many of these things may be obvious to you, but since the Forum and this topic may also be useful for people who just start with Paros, I'll be detailed.

Water
I use 100% rainwater. In a part of this water, I boil some peat. I mix and measure the boiled water and the plain water, until the PH is approx. 4,5.
PH 4 is okay as well, PH 5 is too high, i.m.o..
To make sure the rainwater is free of hazardous chemicals, I use EasyLife (= a product name), to clean the water. EasyLife also makes the water values (PH, DH, KH) stable.
DH and KH close to zero (less than 1).
Temp. 27- 28 degrees Celcius.

Peat (Torf)
Besides using peat to lower the PH, I think there may be natural substances in peat which make the fish feel good.
Also, they love to swim through (and hide under) dots of peat fiber (torf fasern). I use quite a lot of peat fiber (besides granules) on the bottom of the Paros aquariums, and refresh a part of them approx. once every two to three months.
I can see the Paros love the freshly added fiber!
To make the fiber sink, boil it in water for just a minute or so (force the fiber under water using i.e. a spoon, to get it to sink). I keep this water for later use, when I need to lower the PH of additional / fresh water.

EasyLife
I'm convinced EasyLife is a fantastic product. Easy-Life does not contain any chemicals, bacteria or enzymes, but is comprized of thousands of natural minerals which produce over 30 different effects in fresh water and marine systems, without any unwanted side-effects. http://www.easylife.nl provides a lot of information on this product, in Deutsch too.
I think I would be far less successful if I didn't use EasyLife. I've tested it myself concerning the growth of Hemigrammus erythrozonus. I split up a batch of H. erythrozonus fry, and raised them in two different aquariums: one with and one without using EasyLife. After 6 weeks, the fry who had EasyLife added to their water, was on average nearly twice as large as their siblings!
No, I don't own (a part of) the EasyLife company - I just love the product

Couple
Although I've seen Parosphromenus bintan as well as P. sumatranus spawn (occasionally) while they were kept in a group, I've never seen this leading to fry.
If the group exists of only the adult breeding couple and their young, up to sub-adults, that is not a problem.

I'm not sure what goes wrong with the eggs or larva when spawning took place in a group, but I do see that it somehow doesn't work to breed Parosphromenus in a group. That is, in my aquariums it hasn't worked so far, but maybe someone else did succeed breeding them this way?
I think it's most effective - if you have the chance - to keep a small group of a Parosphromenus species, and watch closely which male and female show sexual interest in each other. Then catch this particular couple, and move them to a tank of their own. It doesn't need to be a large tank, I've bred Parosphromenus in tanks measuring 20 liter, and up to 60 liter.
Keeping a small group at first may be most effective, but it's not a must. Most species I keep and breed, started with the purchase of just 1 male and 1 female.

food
My Paroshromenus diet depends on the season, but there are 2 food sources they get all year round: artemia nauplien, and white worms (enchytraen). I feed my fish at least 2 -3 times a day, but I'm aware, not everyone will have the time to do that.
In their natural habitat, searching for food is a main activity for small fish like our Parosphromenus are. Therefore I think it's better to feed often but in small portions at a time, compared to feeding a larger quantity at once. However, when feeding small portions at a time, it's extra important to watch if all fish, not the most dominant only, get some of the food.

infusoria
I add infusoria (tiny organisms that can serve as a food source for fish fry) to all breeding tanks. Maybe, the presence of these infusoria is one of the clues for the fish, that it would be a good time to breed.

nestling place
I've offered several different potential breeding places to my Parosphromenus. If a couple is eager to breed, they'll use anything that is small enough and has a "roof". I've had a couple nestling under a filter-unit (the filter was off!), under a tight piece of peat fiber, in a small plastic plant pot, in a film tube, under pieces of wood, and in plant-pots made out of peat.
When they can choose between several potential places, I always see them pick one that is made out of natural materials (under a piece of wood, or in a small plant-pot made out of compressed peat, or even on the glass bottom of the aquarium, under a piece of thick peat fiber)

filter or air
I don't use a filter in any of my Parosphromenus aquariums, because they don't seem to like a constant strong water flow. However, my sumatranus love a "shower" now and then! I turn on a filter unit in their aquarium sometimes, and they all get excited, and "playful". After half an hour or so, the fun is over, and I turn the filter off again.
I've tried this with P. bintan and P. "Manis Mata" too, but these species didn't think this to be funny at all!
I do use an air pump with an air stone in some of their aquariums. I don't see any difference in their behavior, with or without an airstone.

refreshing water
I refresh at least 5 to 10% of the water, on a weekly base. I keep doing this, whether or not young fry is present.

quiet?
No, Parosphromenus don't need a quiet place to breed. Once they're accustomed, they're not easily disturbed. In fact, all my Parosphromenus are behaving very relaxed and are curious to see what is going on around them.
I live in an old house that has a wooden floor. With every footstep, I see the water levels in the aquariums go up and down! When a door is slammed (because of the wind, there are no fights in our house ; -) - all aquariums shake and tremble. The fish don't react to this at all.
When I put something in the water, either my finger, a tube or whatever, they'll come to check it closely. I often feed them out of my hand (white worms especially). When I need to catch them, the first time never is a problem. However, they quickly learn to recognize a net! Catching them a second or third time is a different story for each individual fish: some of them actually seem to like to be catched (they swim into the net on their own, whenever I need them to do just that). Others apparently hate it, and are extremely hard to catch, once they've learned what a net is... Hating to be catched seems to be true for all P. sumatranus I have, with the other species it depends on the individual fish.

I'm looking forward to read replies that tell me, if other breeders maybe do things differently, or that your breeding set ups are about the same as mine. If you have questions, please ask. If I have a secret, I don't need to keep it a secret, I'm happy to share my experiences!

Best wishes,
Karen

(...) Schön, dass sich jemand um Prachtguramis im Forum kümmert. Eigentlich gibt es eine kleine, aber aktive Gruppe von Parozüchtern in der IGL. Vielleicht kann man deren Abstimmungen hierher verlegen.

Gruß Martin Hallmann

Lieber Martin Hallmann, ja, es sieht ja fast so aus, als käme das Parosphromenus-Forum langsam wieder ins Laufen. Was die Abstimmung unter den Paro-Züchtern angeht, so habe ich vor, dazu demnächst eine Initiative zu starten.

Hallo Peter Finke, bei der Abstimmung sollte man die alten Hasen (die sich -wie ich- bisher nicht ins Forum getraut haben) mit ansprechen. Wir können uns gern abstimmen und ggf. die Arbeitsgruppe Prachtguramis mit reaktivieren. Sind Sie eigentlich in Ruhmannsfelden dabei? Wäre doch schön, wenn sich dort die Gruppe träfe. Gruß Martin Hallmann

Hallo Karen,

deine Infos zur Haltung und Zucht sind sehr interessant. Was bewirkt Easy Life eigentlich? Ist es nicht hinderlich bei etwa erforderlicher Krankheitsbehandlung (wie z. B. auch Wasseraufbereitungsmittel). Bei Paros kommt das nicht oft vor, aber Neuzugänge von Betta behandle ich grundsätzlich, bevor sie dazugesetzt werden mit Hexa Ex.
Es ist prima, dass du die gleichen "Stämme" weiterzüchtest, das freut mich sehr. Die Paro bintan "Mimbon" züchte ich übrigens seit der Einfuhr `98, ich denke sie sind vom Süden der malaiischen Halbinsel (sehen aus wie P. bintan Pontian Besar/ Kecil) und außer uns wir beiden gibt es nicht viele, die P. bintan "Mimbon" züchten. Außerdem sind es m. E. die schönsten P. bintan Typen.
Die Eltern von P. nagyi (ich weiß nicht, welchen Fundort du bekommen hast) habe ich 2000 und 2005 aus Kuantan und 2005 aus Cherating in Westmalaysia mitgebracht.

Gruß Martin

Lieber Martin Hallmann, ich kann wegen einer gleichzeitigen Tagung in Graz leider nicht in Ruhmannsfelden dabei sein, sondern erst nächstes Jahr in Potsdam. Aber ich fände es sehr gut, wenn wir - auch schon vorher - zusammen versuchen könnten, die Parosphromenusgruppe zu reaktivieren und um weitere Mitstreiter zu ergänzen, um die Erhaltung der Aquarienstämme von Parosphromenusformen auf eine bessere Basis zu stellen. Ich würde mich sehr freuen, wenn wir das gemeinsam anpacken könnten!
Herzlich Peter

Hallo Karen,

deine Infos zur Haltung und Zucht sind sehr interessant. Was bewirkt Easy Life eigentlich? Ist es nicht hinderlich bei etwa erforderlicher Krankheitsbehandlung (wie z. B. auch Wasseraufbereitungsmittel). Bei Paros kommt das nicht oft vor, aber Neuzugänge von Betta behandle ich grundsätzlich, bevor sie dazugesetzt werden mit Hexa Ex.

About the many effects EasyLife has, can I refer you to their website please? They provide extensive information, in several languages, as well as links to test reports :

http://www.easylife.nl/deutsch/index.html/

I'm not sure, but it could be possible indeed that EasyLife reduces the effect of chemical-based medicine. However, if you use these medicines mainly with newly arrived fish, a solution could be to treat the fish with medicin as long as they are in quarantaine, and add EasyLife to your breeding tanks only.

Es ist prima, dass du die gleichen "Stämme" weiterzüchtest, das freut mich sehr. Die Paro bintan "Mimbon" züchte ich übrigens seit der Einfuhr `98, ich denke sie sind vom Süden der malaiischen Halbinsel (sehen aus wie P. bintan Pontian Besar/ Kecil) und außer uns wir beiden gibt es nicht viele, die P. bintan "Mimbon" züchten. Außerdem sind es m. E. die schönsten P. bintan Typen.

Yes, I agree these P. bintan "Mimbon" are quite astonishing! Here's a picture of the breeding couple you've bred, and are in my possesion now:

This photo was made one day after their arrival (Oct. 2004)!

Their 60 liter aquarium had almost no contents, except well-prepared water of course, a bit of peat and cleaned river sand on the bottom, and only one medium large floating plant.
They made a nest between the bottom of the aquarium and a filter unit (the filter was turned off). This was also the only possible place for them to build a nest, and until I saw them making a nest here, I never would have thought they'd use that spot!

So, I was VERY surprised (and very excited and happy), I didn't expect them to start breeding instantly!

Their first spawning/mating sessions were one of the most beautiful I've ever seen. Since then, they've been breeding almost constantly, but since they are a close couple now, they don't spend time anymore in showing off. As soon as they're ready for a next nest, they start the actual spawnings right away. I don't blame them, but loved to see their initial - first time - mating behavior!

I also see this with other Parosphromenus species; the first spawnings of a new couple involves many behavior showing the fish in their most beautiful colors. Once the newly 'wedded' ('heiratet') couple have accepted each other as being mates, they switch to efficient production instead, and skip the mating/showing off behavior.

Die Eltern von P. nagyi (ich weiß nicht, welchen Fundort du bekommen hast) habe ich 2000 und 2005 aus Kuantan und 2005 aus Cherating in Westmalaysia mitgebracht.

Mine are originally from Kuantan. At the moment I keep them together with a pair of Betta persephone, they do well together so far. The persephones are sub-adults too, maybe when they are sexually mature in some time and start nestling, it's wise to seperate them.
I'll keep you (and the other Parosphromenus enthusiasts) informed!

Kind regards, Karen

.....Once the newly 'wedded' ('heiratet') couple have accepted each other as being mates, they switch to efficient production instead, and skipp the mating/showing off behavior......

Dies kann ich auch bestätigen; bei meinen paludicola oder den "blue line" war es genau so. (Übrigens auch bei den Schleiereulen, die in unserem Haus brüten. Angeblich sollen sie immer wochenlange Zeremonien durchlaufen bevor sie zur Sache kommen. Das ist aber nur jeweils das erste Mal so. Solange die gleichen Tiere hier wieder gebrütet haben (inzwischen haben sie mehrfach gewechselt), haben sie sich das viele Rufen und Balzen fast vollkommen geschenkt. Unter "verheirateten" Schleiereulen findet nur noch ein kleines, schnelles Ritual statt. So auch bei eingespielten Paro-Paaren.

... und Ihr andere alle, die Ihr dieses Forum lest und auch Prachtguramis haltet: seid Ihr Euch alle sicher über die Art, die Ihr habt?
Was zeigen Eure Fische für Merkmale?
Peter Finke

Ich haben P. anjunganensis, und das sind nachzucht von von eine igl-zuchter. Ich weiße keine parosphromenus-arten womit ich die tiere können umtauchen. Auch haben ich von 1 oder 2 tiere P. deissneri sp. Jambi. Ich haben 4 gekauft und ich haben 2 tiere tod fundsache. Die 2 andern sehe ich selten. Ich bin nicht sicher über die art.
Auch haben ich ein frau von P. sp. paludicola "Sungai golok" F1. Das sind nachzucht von Norbert Neugebauer.

Lieber Geert, wie groß schätzt Du die Paro-Szene in Holland ein? Gibt es sehr viele an Parosphromenus interessierte Aquarianer oder sehr wenige? Gibt es ab und zu welche im Handel zu kaufen oder fast nie?
(Vielleicht weiss auch Karen etwas darüber?)

Of course Geert may see it different (if so, please write Geert!), but I think there are very few Paros enthusiasts in Holland, and even less people who breed them.

Besides myself, I know no one else in The Netherlands who breeds them (apart from people who may have a one-time breeding success with Paros). I wish there would be more Paros keepers and breeders over here; I'm trying to interest more people in these lovely little beauties.
Apart from their prefered water conditions, many people find it a problem that most Paros eat life food only. Also, although that is not what I see with the Paros I keep, most of the few informational resources on Paros tell that they are shy.
They can be (very) shy, some people whom I sold Parosphromenus to, are more or less disappointed in them because of this (these people tell me, their Paros rarely show themselves). I see no problem in the forecast that Paros will likely remain species kept by a relatively small group of enthusiasts only. However, I would be happy if this group would be larger than it is now.

There's one thing that makes me wonder though ... In the commercial trade, Parosphromenus species are found only occassionally in Holland. But if they are for sale, they're sold out rapidly. To whom?? (are they mainly sold to people, who don't know what exactly they buy??)

It's very unlikely that there is an "underground" Parosphromenus breeders-circle in Holland. Several members of the NVL (the Dutch Labyrinth Fish Association) are very well known in the aquaristic hobby-scene, and they have many contacts, with hobbyists as well as with aquarium store keepers, aquaristic associations, people who make fish-collecting journeys, people who give lectures/presentations on tropical fish, etc.

So, lots of Paros promotional and educational work to do in Holland ; -)!
Karen